Curse

silvertemplar · Jun 22, 2005, 06:00 PM // 18:00

A.Net will firstly have to TOTALLY revamp PvE , essentially you will be paying a monthly fee for the PvP part of the game for it's the only part that will last you longer than 2 months [and even then, it is like paying a monthly fee to play Unreal Tournament...]. They will be forced to raise the level cap, remove instant travel, remove/change the linear mission system into freeform travel. Possibly change the PvE instanced zones effect to somehow include non-grouped players [i.e. throwing at least 2 groups into the same instance , with a moderate respawn system]. Totally redoing the communication system to allow proper trading and auctioning and various other activities. Have to bring back Grinding and Farming, change how armor/items/weapons are traded and generated....goes on and on?

Talesin Darkbriar · Jun 22, 2005, 06:04 PM // 18:04

/steers the topic back on subject...

The main idea of charging a monthly fee (as described above) is that it rids the game of many (if not most) of the undesirable people who are not playing Guild Wars to enjoy it, but rather to cause the grief of everyone else present.
Plenty of posts here regarding this. It's common.

In California, we have some really nice parks and they used to be free admission.
After years of people defacing monuments, vandalizing park property and features, and generally making asses of themselves to everyone else's detriment, the parks instituted a entrance fee.

Problem solved.

You see, griefers on a whole don't want to pay a fee to destroy something for everyone else. They'd rather go where its free admission.

Talesin

Talesin Darkbriar · Jun 22, 2005, 06:06 PM // 18:06

Quote:

Originally Posted by silvertemplar

A.Net will firstly have to TOTALLY revamp PvE , essentially you will be paying a monthly fee for the PvP part of the game for it's the only part that will last you longer than 2 months [and even then, it is like paying a monthly fee to play Unreal Tournament...]. They will be forced to raise the level cap, remove instant travel, remove/change the linear mission system into freeform travel. Possibly change the PvE instanced zones effect to somehow include non-grouped players [i.e. throwing at least 2 groups into the same instance , with a moderate respawn system]. Totally redoing the communication system to allow proper trading and auctioning and various other activities. Have to bring back Grinding and Farming, change how armor/items/weapons are traded and generated....goes on and on?

Why?
Everything you list is viewed as a negative in any other game.

liuzg · Jun 22, 2005, 06:08 PM // 18:08

Quote:

Originally Posted by Talesin Darkbriar

/steers the topic back on subject...

The main idea of charging a monthly fee (as described above) is that it rids the game of many (if not most) of the undesirable people who are not playing Guild Wars to enjoy it, but rather to cause the grief of everyone else present.
Plenty of posts here regarding this. It's common.

In California, we have some really nice parks and they used to be free admission.
After years of people defacing monuments, vandalizing park property and features, and generally making asses of themselves to everyone else's detriment, the parks instituted a entrance fee.

Problem solved.

You see, griefers on a whole don't want to pay a fee to destroy something for everyone else. They'd rather go where its free admission.

Talesin

The point is in this case the funds can go to maintenance and prevention, like employing security guards(if there is,to look out for troublemakers and vandals) and repairing and all those stuff.
But how is that going to improve GW in this sense?
How does it help in the virtual damage done as in a lousy community?

GraceAlone · Jun 22, 2005, 06:08 PM // 18:08

I haven't read through the entire thread, sorry, but here is my 2 cents. If ANet starts charging for the game, then I will no longer play. The entire appel of GW for me was the no monthly fee. Personally I'm of the opinion that I bought the game, why should I have to continue, monthly, to buy the game? But that's just me. Personally it is easier to drop $50 once a year on a game then to spend $20 a month for a total of $240, over the course of a year. So I'm very glad that ANet will never charge

silvertemplar · Jun 22, 2005, 06:11 PM // 18:11

I've experienced grievers/idiots in subscription games more often than on free games btw. Why? They tend to believe because they are paying they have the RIGHT to be there and do whatever it is they are doing. Secondly, it's harder to get them banned, as it is effectively lost money to the company....

Now if this is only about getting people with access to credit cards to play online, then asking $1 subscription fee would be sufficient wouldnt it? I believe they do it at at plenty of places merely to prove your age or consent of a parent....

That i wouldn't have a problem with, but merely putting up a $15 fee for the sake of eliminating certain types of players sounds rather absurd :P

Swampgirl Inez · Jun 22, 2005, 06:12 PM // 18:12

Quote:

Originally Posted by Talesin Darkbriar

You see, griefers on a whole don't want to pay a fee to destroy something for everyone else. They'd rather go where its free admission.

Talesin

Wrong. Being a griefer and having the money to play have nothing to do with each other. The people who want to play and can afford it will, regardless of their attitude. People who grief in a game aren't like vandals in a public park. The griefers you get in a game think they have a 'right' to be there doing what they do because they pay it. In fact, many of the griefers I've seen or heard of don't think they are griefing. Stupid kids in a public park know they are doing wrong.... usually.

I'll say it again. I played a paying game. We had just as many griefers there as here. Those griefers were WORSE because they used this arguement... "I pay for this! I can do what I want!" etc, etc. And as someone said above, it was harder to get them banned or reprimanded in any way because the game loses money if they start kicking out paying customers.

silvertemplar · Jun 22, 2005, 06:19 PM // 18:19

Quote:

Why?
Everything you list is viewed as a negative in any other game.

Not from my perspective, but yes, one of the selling points of GW was the removal of the negative points of MMORPGs ...but those same negative points are currently the only means of increasing the longevity of the game. At this stage i seriously doubt GW created the game with the intention of making you play in PvE fashion longer than 2 months, i'm sure they knew this and probably used the "no-monthly" fee as an additional sales point even though it is the LOGICAL thing to do.

Plus i do not believe GW actually solved the MMORPG-casual-no-grind problem. GW is not going to kill any MMORPG and it basically just became alot more apparant WHY Sony/Blizzard/etc are asking monthly subscriptions and GW not :P

Although this is as close to a "rock-the-MMORPG-boat" as can get at this stage. Anet went for a gap, and i honestly believe they scored already.

Pevil Lihatuh · Jun 22, 2005, 06:31 PM // 18:31

Yes some idiots will be removed... but not all idiots are poor or kids that have to ask for their parents cash. There are plenty of people out there old enough and rich enough to play it that are STILL morons.

Many people who are griefers or idiots don't believe they are idiots. That's why they are so idiotic! lol. They are convinced they're right (although some of course do it just to wind you up) and they're not gonna suddenly think 'oh im wrong' because they're paying.

Plus you would drive away many people from teh game. The only reason I play it is because its free; I can't afford to pay for it. Well that and the fact I love it, but I completely refuse to pay to play something I already paid for. You get just as much of a community in games like Sacred or Black and White, and those are free simply because they are primarily singleplayer games.

Not to mention all the threads now about "such adn such skill sucks" or "I want this in the game" or "so and so is so unbalanced" etc. Right now, A.net would be perfectly in the rights to say "Well sorry we can't afford to do anything about it" and all they would get is a few grumbles. Pay for playing the game and immediately if they say that they get "OMFG YOU SUCK! I PAY FOR THIS GAME SO GIVE ME WHAT I DEMAND NOW!". Not to mention that if you are paying they will no doubt have to make extra sure to stop scams, flaming and other abuse, which would mean employing Gamemasters to roam the game constantly and fix bugs/unstick people/take note of bots etc.

And on the banned thing, no matter how nice a company is, if they ban someone they already got the money out of, well so what? They have the money and the community thinks "yay they care". If they can still squeeze some more money out of an idiot for a few months though, its more likely they'll get a temp. ban and we'll all think... "hmm..."

Don't forget even if you charge for it, there will be free servers appear. While its free, there's no need for anyone to crack the software or make an emulator. But start charging... I don't know of a single mmo that charges which doesn't have a free version somewhere on the net. And that will draw people away who stayed despite the charges as well as those who simply can't afford it.

I've played UO and I've played GW, and whilst I love GW, it doesn't have the staying power. Start charging, people feel they have to play very regularly to keep up with their spenditure on it, and will reach the boredom limit much quicker. Right now I can put it down for a month and when I come back I've lost no money and gained some of my enthusiasm back. Charge for it and IF i somehow decide to waste my months fee, I'll be worrying the whole time about wasting that money. I'll feel forced to constantly play it. Either that or I don't pay and the account gets wiped. Yay I get to start all over again.

OneArmedScissor · Jun 22, 2005, 06:31 PM // 18:31

I will never pay to play a game.
I already spent $50 on the game, and now you want me to pay monthly fees?
No way, Jose

Varcon · Jun 22, 2005, 06:41 PM // 18:41

I bought this game due to the fact there was no monthly fee - I simply couldn't afford the prices most games offered. However I would not consider myself an "idiot" or whatever you want to call them.

Moreover, if the game was paid for, people would feel as though they deserve more, after all, they're paying a lot for it, and so demand, complain and whinge would be on the increase.

It is also not hard to get a group together that is not full of idiots and retards who run in, or spam the map; However I have been in a group with them quite a few times, and many of them have changed their ways after I told them how annoying they actually were.

Kalrakhi · Jun 22, 2005, 06:42 PM // 18:42

I used to play Legend of Mir which is a pay monthly game, I reached lvl 40 (considered high lvl) after power lvling nearly every day. The fact that I paid to play each month made me play the game more, to get my moneys worth and alas, I'm bored of that game. With guild wars, its just a nice little game you can have sat on your pc which allows you to play whenever you want.

Heres an offer for you though, not sure if its being mentioned but if Anet made this game a pay monthly game then the only way to possibly prevent a crisis would be to allow the game to be played offline with Henchmen or by allowing you to do a IP connect game. This is simply because if Anet made the game pay monthly, after a fair few people buying the game with the knowledge it is free (one of the reasons I was lulled in - don't get me wrong I have the money to be able to pay monthly but I wouldnt want to as there have being times were I go 3 weeks without playing) then Anet has changed its contract with the buyer and has technically sold them a duff program. If it could run offline then this would be solved.

Stev0 · Jun 22, 2005, 06:47 PM // 18:47

From the stories I have heard. People who played SW Galaxies had just as much to complain about as we do but things were even worse with features non-existant, missing and non-functional. They pay and monthly fee. I dont see it getting better for it.

Silmor · Jun 22, 2005, 07:26 PM // 19:26

I've seen a similar train of thought for Ragnarok Online. During open beta whiners, idiots, botters, scammers and griefers were rife, and all the 'good' players were sighing and pining for the moment it would finally go live and the requirement to pay would finally rid them of that nonsense. Oh, how much more fun the game would be!

Then it went live (well, it became paid beta), they paid their money, and soon discovered the situation was pretty much unchanged. Conclusion: it ain't going to happen. The only thing a monthly fee adds is people who become that much more vocal about their whining, constantly announcing they're going to leave/cancel subscription, i.e. stack the drama up high. It's not going to filter out idiots, it's not going to filter out whining, it's not going to magically improve things for you.

Sledge · Jun 22, 2005, 07:33 PM // 19:33

Quote:

Originally Posted by Slade xTekno

"Only two things are infinite, the universe and human stupidity, and I'm not sure about the former."
~Albert Einstein

The answer is 42

"There is a theory which states that if ever anyone discovers exactly what the Universe is for and why it is here, it will instantly disappear and be replaced by something even more bizarre and inexplicable. There is another theory which states that this has already happened."

I would leave if a monthly fee were charged.

Gerbill · Jun 22, 2005, 08:14 PM // 20:14

I disagree.. putting on a monthly fee.. won't get away the lamers.
it will only keep away the people who can't afford/be arsed to pay a monthly fee for games.

what bout rich stuck up kids .. I mean.. who says lamers aren't rich kids in real life ?
Lamers being the main problem I'd say.

I for one can't afford a monthly fee, thus I'm forced to play this but I don't complain at all since I love it, sure there are lamers.. but they are everywhere.
being able to afford a monthly fee doesn't mean you're not a lamer

I mean.. lamers can nag like hell.. they'll just nag at their parents heads till they pay the monthly fee.

johnnylange · Jun 22, 2005, 09:14 PM // 21:14

Quote:

Originally Posted by Talesin Darkbriar

Please feel free to be specific.
This topic does not seek to address the fact that some people complain period.

Just like drinking Sprite won't get you into the NBA... Charging a monthly fee just isn't going to breed intelligence, nor bring you the desired results you're looking for.

Tuna · Jun 23, 2005, 01:33 AM // 01:33

You can only get away with a monthly fee in a MMORPG, an since Guild Wars isn't a MMO...

Morganas · Jun 23, 2005, 01:48 AM // 01:48

I have trouble affording food/rent/tuition with the money I make, the main reason I had to stop playing WoW, a game I liked very much. You wouldn't filter out the kids, you wouldn't filter out the parent parasites. You'd only filter out the people who make their own money, and thus value it, have lots of other more important expenses.

DrSLUGFly · Jun 23, 2005, 01:56 AM // 01:56

to OP:

You're lucky I don't have enough energy left for Meteor Storm, cuz buddy you'd be getting it right on the noggin! I bought WoW but because of my location I'm unable to play. I have to have an English CD if I want to play on English servers (much UNlike the very flexable guild wars set up) and if I have an English CD the account needs to be purchased from the same country as the CD. I'm an expat in Korea and so this is impossible for me... and I tried... for months I tried... then I found guild wars !!!

now I hardly ever sleep

I would never play guild wars again if there was a monthly fee. Not because I'm one of these tard kids who holds grudges and not cuz the 10 to 20 dollars/5 to 10 pounds per month would hurt me, but because it would be impossible for me to set up an account...